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From
Chuck's e-Mailbox #3: Meet Gino B & his Omega
Collection
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I
received an interesting email on Tuesday 7 October 2003 that
I have asked for and received permission to share with you
all. As most of you know, I do receive a number of
unsolicited emails on a daily basis, and from
time
to time,
I do share them with the forum. Following below is first a
Legend as to how I'm formating the messages as they have
gone back and forth, then the actual conversation between
Gino Balbi of Milan and myself.
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Legend:
An E-Mail Message
received from Gino Balbi on 7 October
2003:
My reply sent 7
October 2003...
Gino's reply received 9
October 2003
My reply sent 9 October 2002...
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Hi
Chuck,
I'm an your fan and
I would express to you very many thanks for what you have
done, and what you are doing continously, for all the fonds
and collectors of Omega models and specially for Speedmaster
fans & collectors.
Well thank you
sir! It's always nice to hear good things about my
efforts!
You are
priceless, just today I have read your new revision on
Dimensions
of
Selected.....,
you're really fantastic...
Eh, most
days these days I'm re-active, not pro-active...
People ask a question, I reply and or update as
needed. I've needed to do that for quite some time.
It did turn out nice though... =)
I discovered your
web site and your articles on speedy family at the beginning
of the current year and in your articles I have found many
confirmations to my personal researches and also many and
many news.
The topic is
deep and broad, and while I can't say I learn new things
every day, I do usually learn several new things every
week.
My enthusiasm for
the speedy began in the 1968 when my father said he would
have to present me a watch for the eighteenth birthday and
my choise was a speedmaster model (ST 145.012). I still
remember the price: eighty thousand italian liras (I have
preserved the Omega catalogue of that year too, see the
attach 5.jpg).
 
This was my sole
watch for many and many years, all the days and all the
nights, 24 hrs/24 hrs ( I sleep wearing watch), untill 1987
when came out the automatic day-date model (ST 376.0822); my
second speedmaster !
The "Grail
Watch"!!! One of my all time favorites! Great watch, wish
Omega still made it...
Ah...
wish Omega still made it... never say
never.....
"GrailWatch":
is the first time that I hear this, can you explain me
better?
My first
eBay Omega vintage watch purchase came down to a ST
376.0822 and a ST 176.0012... The .0822 was located
in Germany, the .0012 was located in Iowa (about 5
hours driving for me)... Since I was new to
purchasing very expensive things on eBay, I didn't
speak German (still don't), was familiar with the
Mark II style case (this was 10 months before I
owned a pre-moonwatch) and was very unknowledgeable
about the availability, I concentrated my efforts
on the .0012 (and won it) and let the .0822 pass. A
month or two later I decided I wanted the .0822 too
and found they were not the easiest model to find
(to say the least)... Then came the quest to locate
one for my collection. A quest that was near
Arthurian in nature, with the .0822 being the
Grail. It took me nearly two years of effort, with
a number of setbacks and disappointments to the
point of dispair, but I did eventually purchase an
excellent example of the model I had came to call
"The Grail"...
It's a personal
nickname for that model.
Some
years later (1993) I decided to start a collection of speedy
models and now I'm proud to show you my speedy collection
(and also a little seamaster collection) collected during
these years and so I hope you enjoy as well with the
sight.
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#
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Case
Ref. #
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Calibre
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S/N
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Year
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Remarks
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From the left of the
top row we have:
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1
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CK
2998-4
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c.321
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17764xxx
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1959
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2
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CK
2998-61
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c.321
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19584xxx
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1961
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3
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ST
105.002-62
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c.321
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20525xxx
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1962
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4
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ST
105.003-63
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c.321
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20256xxx
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1963
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5
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ST
105.012
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c.321
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24014xxx
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1966
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6
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ST
145.012
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c.321
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25006xxx
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1967
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My
First...
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From the left of the
bottom row we have:
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7
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ST
145.022
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c.861
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32192xxx
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1970
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post/m. 1st
gen cback
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8
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ST
145.022
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c.861
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44121xxx
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1980
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Mk II
dial
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9
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ST
145.022
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c.861
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48254xxx
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1989
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20th ann.
(1216/2000)
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10
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ST
376.0822
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c.1045
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48231xxx
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1987
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11
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ST
145.022
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c.861
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48381xxx
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1989
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Apollo X
mission watch
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12
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ST
145.022
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c.861
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48402xxx
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1999
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Hello
Houston (30th Ann.)
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That's
as impressive of a set of Moonwatch Cases as I've ever
seen in one picture... Even top's Gerry
L's:
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#
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Case
Ref. #
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Calibre
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Year
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Remarks
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From the left of the
top row we have:
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1
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CK2998-2
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c.321
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1959
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2
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ST
105.002-62
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c.321
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1962
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3
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ST
105.012-66
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c.321
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1966
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From the left of the
Middle row we have:
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4
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ST
145.014
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c.861
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c.1969
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5
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ST
376.804
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c.1045
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c.1977
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6
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ST
145.012
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c.1045
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1987
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From the left of the
bottom row we have:
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7
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ST
145.022
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c.861
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1994
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25th
Anniversary edition
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8
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ST
145.022
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c.863
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1996
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Sapphire
Displayback
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9
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ST
145.022
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c.1861
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1999
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1957
Re-Edition
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We
need your knowledge, expertise and participation over on
the TimeZone Omega Forum. Here is a link to it:
http://beta.timezone.com/forum.aspx?forumId=omega
A
bunch of fellow Speedmaster enthusiasts congregate there
to discuss all things Omega.
Not
only do I hope you join us and become a regular reader
and participant, I would like to ask your permission to
reproduce this reply to you in the forum so others may
enjoy your collection and thoughts.
Please
let me know if this is ok with you...
Thanks
for the honour, of course yes, you have mypermission,I
find interesting this formof dialogue.
Done!
About
the ST 105.012, yes, you supposed right, the caseseback
retain the tipical twin-angle slope of CK and ST 105.xxx
series, instead of the single angle of the ST 145.012 . In
this case this is the only external way to differenciate
between the ST105.012 and the ST145.012 without opening the
case and reading the ref. inside.
Very
cool, I'll note that in the Casebacks guide!
Thanks!
Another
interesting feature on the caliber 321 is that both the #1
and the #3 of mine have engraved on the bridge
„adjusted two 2 positions. Do you have ever noticed
or met this detail in your researches ?
I've
noticed this on a number of models but it remains on the
list of things to explore..
Only
in Speedy c.321 or also in other models? Which is the
highest serial number you have noticed with this
feature? My is 20525372 (1962).
I
have yet to explore this personally. Always
something new I have to explore and learn!
And
finally, but I haven't yet taken a photograph:
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#
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Case
Ref. #
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Calibre
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S/N
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Year
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Remarks
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13
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ST
145.014
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c.861
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31002xxx
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1970
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Mark
II
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14
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ST
176.009
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c.1040
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34248xxx
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1974
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Mark
IV
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15
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ST
376.0806
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c.1045
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39186xxx
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1984
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Mark
V
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Very
nice. You have the makings of a very comprehensive Speedy
collection!
I
only own 6 Pre-Moon/Moon Speedys: CK2915-3 (which has the
soon to be adopted CK2998 hands on it), 105.003-65,
145.012-67, 145.022-59 (Pre-Moon White Painted Logo),
145.022-89 (20th Anniversary Edition 1169/2000 <-
Cool number eh?), and my most recent addition a c.1996
c.863 Display Back.
Very
interesting, I don't knowabout a CK2915-3 serie with
the CK2998 hands on it, CK2915 was in production only
two years and it'svery strange that Omega had a
...-3type,however also CK 2998has a ...-4 type ,can be
a real sequence ? Youropinion ?
Yes,
well... actually there are several questions in
that sequence... 1) Very Interesting that the
CK2915 had a -3... Yeah, my example was the first
I've seen, but I've since seen one
on eBay that is nigh identical to
mine...
2) I've seen CK2998 -3's -4's -5's and -6's... In
fact, this morning I noticed eBay Auction #
2661406190 (can't post direct links to eBay
auctions or commerical watch sites here in the
forum, so you'll have to do a search on your own)
which has a 2998-61 (which may be when Omega
started switching over to case reference numbers
with a model year indicated.
From
what I've been able to puzzle out, there were 4
variations of the CK2915, with the CK2915 being the
one most people remember, and the C2915-3 being
nearly (or actually) identical to the CK2998. And
from what I've seen the CK2998-6 is nearly (or
actually) identical to a
105.002/105.003...
I
have two Mark II's (one Black Dial - My First Omega and a
Red/Orange dial), a Black dial Mark III, a Mark IV and
Mark V.
In
addition I own a complete set of the Stainless Steel
c.1045 series (Seven models total including the 376.0822
and the Mark V), and a complete set of the German
"Teutonic" Speedmasters (which also include the Mark V),
I also own a 1986 Titanium Moonphase Chronograph (which
isn't dialed either Seamaster or Speedmaster and has
elements of each line in it's heritage, an Omega
"Driver's" "Bullhead" Chronograph as well as both a c.910
and c.911 Flightmaster, at least the Stainless Steel
ones. And then there are the Seamasters, Oy
Veh!
Very
very fine, congratulationsespecially for the 345.08010
, it's very rare ; I am on finishing straight for a
345.0809 !!!!
That
was a wild deal... It had a Buy It Now for a very
reasonable price, but the seller was an Iranian
living in Germany who didn't speak English.
However, his brother living in England did speak
fluent English and provided his phone number. So I
talked to him and the deal went very smoothly. If
you would have told me 20 years ago I (an American)
would have placed a sizeable amount of money on the
line in such a circumstance I would have told you
that you were crazy. I guess it goes to show that
the Internet brings together dissimilar people and
breaks down barriers that would otherwise separate
them.
I
too would love to acquire a 345.0809, however the
new model with the c.1866 is close enough that I
may just settle for that...
I
love all the speedies, they are wonderful in every shape
because are testimony of their own time, are you
agree?
Agreed,
I am very fond of them. I especially like the Variant
models, while the moonwatch are classics, there are
plenty of wonderful models within the variants Omega
produced.
Yes,
I'have found very interesting also the Gilliam custom
on 176.0012,I would like something like with my
176.009 (with a spare case oviously!!)
I'm
pretty sure Gilliam could accomodate you if you had
a spare Mark IV case.
(Gino
also included a picture of a very healthy Vintage Seamaster
"three hand" spread):
Then
there are the Seamasters. I don't collect (many)
"Three-hand" watches, but I've purchased a couple of
1960's Seamaster 120's for my sister, one Manual wind and
an Automatic. They are very nice watches.
Have
you ever seen this type of chronostop (it should be a
variant for the italian market only, I suppose) , the
case and braceletare the same of Dynamic.
No,
I can't say that I have... Hopefully this posting
in the Omega Forum will generate some
replies!
My
Seamaster holdings are getting to be nearly as extensive
as my Speedmaster holdings.
Here
is a post on my
latest Seamaster
acquisition...
What
do you think?
I
enjoy with you,simply wonderful dialfrom 1970, your
photographs are so clear that's a pleasure for the
sight.
I
wish I could take the credit for those pictures...
They are the Seller's pictures. The are very nice,
as is the watch...
Enjoy
!
I
have, and I hope you do as well.
I
must say it is a genuine pleasure to meet your
acquantance and I hope you will visit the TimeZone Omega
Forum and perhaps join in the discussions there. It can
be very rewarding!
The
pleasure is mostly mine;I' visiting the TimeZone Omega
Forum but not daily , rather less than more,but in the
near future perhaps I'll join too.
Ciao
from Milan,
Gino
Hope
to hear from you soon in a VERY SUNNY and warm
Chicago!
Cheers!
Chuck
P.S.
I've included both of the Omega Forum Moderators and
Gerry L in my reply so they can see your wonderful spread
of Speedys!
Hope
to hear from you soon and aloha to Gerry L and to
Omega Forum Moderators!
Ciao
from a very sunny (almost these days)
Milan,
Gino
P.S.
A final question but very hard question, in your
articles and recently in a post I have read that
yourconvinction (opinion)is that the true first "Moon
Watch" that was worn on the moon was the ST
145.012-67, well... but since Armstrong left his Speed
in the LEM of course the first Speed on the Moonwas
that of Aldrin,
Yes,
that is my understanding of the course of
events.
now
from the Buzz's picture we can clearly notice that the
Speedy is, almost certainly, a ST 105.003 ........Why
your opinion in favour ofthe ST 145.012
?
Well,
because that is the case reference that John
Diethelm of Omega Vintage Information identified as
being Aldrin's. Someone sent the serial number of
his Speedy to John who said something to the effect
,,Your watch is a ST 145.012 that is identical to
the first watch worn on the moon by Buzz Aldrin,,
or something similar... I don't have that
particular document close to hand and it may take
some time to locate it, but that's the
source.
To
be honest, I can't see Aldrin's wrist clearly
enough to confirm (with a lack of crown guards)
that Aldrin is wearing an earlier model, but
looking at the picture, I could see where people
could argue the case reference either
way.
Probably
also Armstrong weared aST 105.003(why it should be
different?).Have you any information how many ST
105.003were bought by NASA in total (Cernan' sspeed
has the Nasa s/n 28 and sothere is no reason to doubt
that the ST 105.003were almost 28) and how many ST
145.012 ??
We
discussed this to great length almost exactly two
years ago in the forum... A fellow TZOFer (the late
Michael Stein) and myself discussed, debated is a
better word, the topic of if the c.861 actually
made it to the moon or on a moon mission.
Fortunately I was able to archive most of those
posts, unfortunately I wasn't as sucessful at
getting all of them. Here is a link to
the
folder where I have those posts
archived...
Supposedly,
NASA (At the time) acquired a total in the range of
92 or 97 Speedmasters.
The
pictures in "ATime Capsule" (pg 107)
Here
is a link to a
post (within the debate with Michael Stein) where I
discuss that very
photo...
I also mention "I'd like to direct your
attention to the blue box... It's hard to make out
because of depth of field/focus... But it almost
appears to be a 84... You can see it much clearer
in the enlargement ... It seems likely that this is
a bin of another batch of Speedmasters. If you
count the number of double-digit S/N's starting
from 72 (one more than the in-focus bin) you will
end up with a number in the 92-96 range which is
consistant with the previously cited number of
93..."
Incidentally,
the watch being wound in this photo is clearly a
Professional with twisted lugs.
show
some 145.012 during qualification testsbut the name
"Professional" first appeared on the watch face after
the official adoption by NASA and since the letter of
final test resullts is date March, '65 of course the
photos must belong tosubsequent
tests.
I'm
not sure when this photo was taken. It would have
to be after mid 1965, but it could even be the late
1970's... I'll bet that the person who snapped the
picture never would have guessed it would be the
topic of much debate so many years later.
I'm
very concerned to an your interpretation, thanks in
advance.
I
have been comfortable with taking John Diethelm's
word that Aldrin's watch was a 145.012.
While
I'm thinking about it, I'd like to point out to you
another series of posts I've archived relating to
the KCSC
(The Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center in
Hutchinson Kansas)
where Alan Shepard's and Ron Evan's Speedmasters
are displayed... Here
is a link to the thread on the
topic...
I think you'll find it interesting to
read...
In any instance, Since I have permission to share
this in the Omega Forum, I've decided to make my
reply to Gino public and bring the rest of you all
in on our conversation. Please Welcome Gino to the
forum, and I hope he becomes a regular reader and
participant in our discussions!
--
Chuck
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