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On May 06, 2006, at 11:11
PM, David Meaux email wrote in an email to
me:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b129/troubledog/Watches/Carerra_close.jpg
Chuck,
We've corresponded in the
past and you have been most helpful.
Hello Dave,
That's always good to
hear... I do try...
Unfortunately, I do not
have the patience i should and I sprung for the watch you
see in the link (let me know if it doesn't work).
[Same link as the one above... Here's a copy of
the picture below]
That one...
I was in Tourneau here in
Houston the other day and it was sitting in their
'pre-owned' cabinet. It was there along with several dozen
other outstanding watches.
That one looks to be
in remarkable shape itself.
Anyway, I recognized the
watch and asked questions. I was told it had been
refurbished by Tourneau in New York and had just come into
the Tourneau Houston store a few days prior. The saleslady
knew she had me (I had that glazed eyes look). I bought the
watch.
I guess I should visit
the local Tourneau branch... I have only visited the
"Time Machine" in manhattan previously, and was
underwhelmed, but I was on a time budget that
day...
Not being the horological
expert (not even a novice level), I've now begun
wondering......
I would imagine that any
watch that a store like Tourneau sells and warranties (yes,
it carries their warranty), has to be legit, but maybe
not!
I would suspect it's a
legit watch, as for original... Depends upon how easily
they can get NOS condition spares... Which I suspect is
not easy...
As I now look at this
watch, I am wondering to what level it was restored and if
all is original. For example, the second hand could be from
an Autavia. On the other hand, Heuer may have interchanged
these kinds of parts.
Well... Let's go over
to OnTheDash.com:
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Click on
Chronographs:
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and scroll down
& click the Carrera section:
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Then click on the
Section that's closest to yours:
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And then on the
specific model that's closest:
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We want to end up here: http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Chronographs/63.Carrera/e.Automatic_(early)/69.Reference_1153S/
Comparing
Side-by-side:
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Dave's
example Cropped and
rotated...
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Carrera
from the Chronograph Guide on
OTD
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The chronograph second hand
looks ok to me, so do the sub-dial hands... The Main
Timekeeping hands (hour and minute) and the dial are
different from what's pictured on Jeff Stein's
archives... The watch you have has "black hearts"
surrounded by bright metal, while the pictured watch has
"bright hearts" surrounded by black... The hour subdial
also only has (4) cardinal markers for hours as opposed
to the 12 markers on the example on Jeff's site. Lastly
the TACHY text on the Bezel is located at 3 o'clock on
your example, about 1 o'clock on the example on OTD.
We'll be working on trying to find on OTD pictures or
documentation that the elements on your watch are
correct...
Let's take a look at the
MOAT (Mother Of All Tables):
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/Master_Reference.php4#Carrera
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Carrera
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Case
Ref.
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Model
Ref.
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Dial
Colours
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Movement
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Crystal
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Catalog
Dates
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Description
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Price
New
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1553
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S
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Silver/Black
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15
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P
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71,72
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71-$170
72-$198
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1553
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N
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Deep
Blue/?
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15
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P
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71,72
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72-$198
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1153
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S
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Silver/Black
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11
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P
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72
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71-$185
72-$225
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1153
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N
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Deep
Blue/White
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11
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P
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72
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72-$225
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1158
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S
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Silver
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11
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P
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72
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18kt.
Gold
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72-$900
(Strap)
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1158
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CH
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Champagne/Black
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11
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P
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72
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18kt.
Gold
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72-$900
(Strap)
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1158
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CHN
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Champagne/Black
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11
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P
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74,
77, 78
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18kt.
Gold
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78-$2,160
No Strap
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110.573
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B
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Blue/Black
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11
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M
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74
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SS
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110.515
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CHN
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Champagne/Black
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11
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M
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74
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GP
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110.253
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G
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Silver
Grey/Black
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11
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P
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78
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SS
(Formerly 1153S)
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110.253
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B
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Blue
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11
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P
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78
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SS
(Formerly 1153N)
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110.255
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Champagne/Black
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11
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P
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78
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GP
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73453
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N
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Deep
Blue/White
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7734
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P
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72
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SS
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72-$170
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73453
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S
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Silver/Black
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7734
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P
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72
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SS
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72-$170
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73655
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S
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Silver/Black
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7736
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P
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72
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GP
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72-$195
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73655
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CH
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Champagne
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7736
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P
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72
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GP
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72-$195
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73653
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S
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Silver/Black
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7736
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P
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72,
74
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SS
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72-$179
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73653
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N
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Deep
Blue/White
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7736
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P
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72,
74
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SS
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72-$179
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73353
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Silver/Black
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7733
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P
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70-71
ID
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SS
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110.571
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NC
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Black/Black
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11
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M
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77
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Black PVD
SS Case
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110.573
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B
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Blue/Black
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11
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M
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74,
77, 78
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SS
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110.573
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F
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Grey/Black
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11
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M
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74
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SS
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150.573
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B
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Blue/Black
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11
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M
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74
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SS
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150.573
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F
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Grey/Black
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11
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M
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74
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SS
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371.253
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N
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Black +
LCD
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P
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78,
81
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SS
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371.255
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CH
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Champagne/LCD
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P
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78,
81
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GP
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371.253
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G
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Silver/LCD
Black Bezel
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P
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78,
81
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SS
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510.511
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Black
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5100
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P
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86
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Black PVD
SS/Bracelet
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86-$415
86-$380 (Strap)
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510.523
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SS
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5100
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P
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-
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SS
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Last
Updated: 2003.05.18.23.48.32 -
CM3
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These
tables were compiled by and are the property of
Bruce Mackie, Hans Schrag, Chuck Maddox and Jeff
Stein (OnTheDash);
Unauthorized
use is
prohibited.
Contact
Jeff Stein for information about authorized
uses. Copyright © 2003-2005 by the above.
Last
Updated: 2003.05.16.09.58.55 -
CM3
|
OK, what does it say between the lugs of your watch? Is
it a 1153? 1153N? 110.253? 110.573? 110.573F What about
the caseback? Any markings there?
If you look on the chart,
run down those Case Reference numbers, you'll see what
I'm picking out of the table. [I've eliminated all of
the Calibre 15's, the 773x's the 5100's, the LCD Models,
all of the models with Gold, PVD, etc.OK, then run across
to the "Catalogue Dates" entry for each of those models:
72, 78, 74...
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Carrera
(simplified
for this example)
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Case
Ref.
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Model
Ref.
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Dial
Colours
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Movement
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Crystal
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Catalog
Dates
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Description
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Price
New
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1153
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S
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Silver/Black
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11
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P
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72
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71-$185
72-$225
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110.253
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G
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Silver
Grey/Black
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11
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P
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78
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SS
(Formerly 1153S)
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110.573
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F
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Grey/Black
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11
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M
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74
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SS
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150.573
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F
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Grey/Black
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11
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M
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74
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SS
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Last
Updated: 2003.05.18.23.48.32 -
CM3
|
|
These
tables were compiled by and are the property of
Bruce Mackie, Hans Schrag, Chuck Maddox and Jeff
Stein (OnTheDash);
Unauthorized
use is
prohibited.
Contact
Jeff Stein for information about authorized
uses. Copyright © 2003-2005 by the above.
Last
Updated: 2003.05.16.09.58.55 -
CM3
|
So next we need to look at
the catalogs on line for those years:
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/
Since the MOAT ID's 1972 as
a year of interest, let's start there:
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/1971-72_Brochure/
Ok, it doesn't appear in
that one... Let's try the 1972 one:
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/1972_Brochure/
Hmmm... Doesn't appear in
that one either... I wonder where the '72 reference came
from then... I'll have to CC Jeff and Bruce on this
one...
Let's move on to
1974...
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/1974_Chronograph_Catalog/
I don't see it in this one
either... Sigh...
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/1978_Catalog/?show=13.jpg
Ah-ha! Our first hit! An
enlargement:
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/1978_Catalog/13.jpg
Again same issue with the
dial and possibly hands...
A look at the 1979 French
catalog results in another hit:
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/1979_Chronograph_Catalog_(Fr)/?show=p08.jpg
with the same results as
last time:
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/1979_Chronograph_Catalog_(Fr)/p08.jpg
Nothing in 1980, 1981, and
by then they had switched the Carrera to a 5100 Lemania
movement. So where does that get us?
Well, remember how we didn't
find anything before 1978... And we had references in the
tables to 72 and 74... Let's look at the Autavia's
...
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Chronographs/62.Autavia/d.Automatic_Autavias/
(specifically, the Siffert
Autavia's) because I remember something...
Notice the 12-hour subdial
on the 69.Reference 1163MH and 69.Reference 1163T The "Jo
Siffert" Model Autavia's? (4) Cardinal hour markers...
Just like your example... Let's look at the Siffert
section:
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Chronographs/62.Autavia/d.Automatic_Autavias/69.Reference_1163T/
We learn that the earliest
Siffert's were Chronomatic Autavia's, before Chronomatic
was dropped, and both of those models had the cardinal
points hour sub-dial, before moving along to markers at
every hour... Perhaps we are on to something... Let's
start looking at the 1969 and 1970 catalogs...
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/
And click on the 1970-71
Catalog:
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/1970-71_Catalog/?show=Pagez1005.jpg
Ah-ha! I think we have
something here... Blown up:
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/1970-71_Catalog/Pagez1005.jpg
We have our quarry!
In the upper left:
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/1970-71_Catalog/Pagez1005.jpg
Comparing with your example, I say we have a match!
Ref. 1153S Carrera. The Hour sub-dial is correct,
it's an early 1970 or 1971 example, the hands look right,
and considering we have seen a picture on Jeff's site of
a similar Carrera with the reddish chronograph second
hand, I think we can conclude that either the watch is
all original, or it's been carefully restored with proper
NOS-esque parts. It even has the proper Tachy Bezel...
With "T A C H Y" at 3 o'clock just like yours...
But wait, there's more... Let's take a gander at the
1970 Chronograph catalog:
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/1970_Chronograph_Catalog/?show=p07.jpg
What do we have here?
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Catalogs/1970_Chronograph_Catalog/p07.jpg
Sporty Elegance,
baby!
I believe that allows us to
remove any doubt about the properness of that Chronograph
second hand... Which in turn should answer and put to
rest any doubts you have about your new
acquisition.
So, what have we learned...
- there is a boat load of
information out there,
- it isn't always indexed
properly (Hint Chuck, Jeff, Bruce, etc. that the MOAT
needs updating and refreshing),
- This page
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Chronographs/63.Carrera/e.Automatic_(early)/69.Reference_1153S/
is not well named, as Dave's example is clearly
earlier than the "(early)" model referenced on this
page... Perhaps this page should be changed to (2nd
version)?
- with a little
persistence and digging we can still find the
information we need,
- the effort is usually
worth the time invested,
- Chuck should take the
time to visit Tourneau the next opportunity he
gets.
In any case, would love
to hear your comments.
Ok, I think you got a
heck of a watch in immaculate condition (as far as I can
tell from one picture), and might have gotten one heck of
a deal, especially considering the warrantee you got on a
35 year old timepiece!
OK, You asked for my help,
and you got it. You could say you owe me one.
Now is payback
time...
For some time OnTheDash has
needed an on-line tutorial on how to research watches
using the resources of OnTheDash. It would seem to me
that my efforts here this morning would be an adequate
example of how to do this...
Thus, I need your permission
to use your photograph and example for this tutorial. I
would be happy to remove your email address (of course)
anonymize your name if you'd like (would you like to be
credited or not?), but I'd like to post this "journey" on
OnTheDash with an eye of preserving it for future
reference and referral to people asking similar
questions. The idea being, if they can follow an example
on how to do this, they will feel more comfortable about
doing the research on their own.
How about it? Do I have your
permission to use your photo and query as a tutorial to
the OnTheDash site?
Please let me
know!
thanks
Cheers and continued
Good Hunting!
dave
meaux
Chuck
P.S. Bruce and Jeff, Sorry
to add to your reading load today, but I think it's worth
the read... Thoughts? -- C
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/p08.jpg)
